In this month's episode, I sat down with Gary Thiara, general manager and partner of Empire Nut Company. Throughout our conversation, we spoke about the humble beginnings of the family-owned business, the public perception of the agriculture industry, and how partnering with UnitedAg has strengthened the Thiara family’s relationship with their employees. Empire Nut Company started as a small orchard, and their success was built upon the support and collaboration of the local farming community. The nature of the agriculture industry produces modest, generous farmers who understand that investing in their communities yields the best harvests. Gary emphasizes that the public’s perception of the agriculture industry often includes stereotypes of overconsumption of natural resources and mistreatment of laborers, which he argues is far from reality. The Thiara family recognizes that the well-being and safety of their employees is essential for the success of their business. Partnering with UnitedAg, as Gary explains, streamlined the integration of healthcare and workplace benefits; this partnership helps address a common challenge in the industry, where these benefits might not be readily accessible. Empire Nut Company’s success derives from the people in their communities -- employees, partners, families – and their generosity. The values held by Empire Nut Company aligns with those of UnitedAg, resulting in a beneficial partnership that contributes to the overall well-being of employees and longevity of business.
In this month's episode, I sat down with Gary Thiara, general manager and partner of Empire Nut Company. Throughout our conversation, we spoke about the humble beginnings of the family-owned business, the public perception of the agriculture industry, and how partnering with UnitedAg has strengthened the Thiara family’s relationship with their employees.
Empire Nut Company started as a small orchard, and their success was built upon the support and collaboration of the local farming community. The nature of the agriculture industry produces modest, generous farmers who understand that investing in their communities yields the best harvests. Gary emphasizes that the public’s perception of the agriculture industry often includes stereotypes of overconsumption of natural resources and mistreatment of laborers, which he argues is far from reality. The Thiara family recognizes that the well-being and safety of their employees is essential for the success of their business. Partnering with UnitedAg, as Gary explains, streamlined the integration of healthcare and workplace benefits; this partnership helps address a common challenge in the industry, where these benefits might not be readily accessible. Empire Nut Company’s success derives from the people in their communities -- employees, partners, families – and their generosity. The values held by Empire Nut Company aligns with those of UnitedAg, resulting in a beneficial partnership that contributes to the overall well-being of employees and longevity of business.
Empire Nut Company - https://empirenut.com/
This episode is sponsored by UnitedAg, one of the largest association health plans to offer healthcare to the agriculture industry of California and Arizona.
Kirti Mutatkar, President and CEO of UnitedAg.
Reach me at kmutatkar@unitedag.org, www.linkedin.com/in/kirtimutatkar
UnitedAg website - www.unitedag.org
Episode Contributors - Samantha Taylor, Kirti Mutatkar, Paul Lecrone, Melanie Larsen
The episode is also sponsored by Brent Eastman Insurance Services Inc. - https://brenteastman.com/Blue
Shield of California - https://www.blueshieldca.com/Elite
Medical - https://www.elitecorpmed.com/Gallagher
Medical https://sainmedical.com/
Gary Thiara: [00:00:04] Yeah, I would say that I always wonder, you know, like why my grandfather wanted to go back and, you know, why my [00:00:10] father decided not to. I suspect my grandfather was probably a little bit older and had, you know, more, more connections and ties to India, which is why [00:00:20] he went back and forth so many times. When my father came here, he was a young man. He was 20 years old. And there were many others like him doing the same thing. And they were. And so they kind of built their [00:00:30] community, if you will, in the areas where they were at. And there was enough of them to where they felt comfortable with one another. It was a very agricultural area where they were at. It was very similar [00:00:40] to where they came from. And they just decided, hey, this is a great place to be and we can make a living here and then we can support a family here. And then just what's interesting, you [00:00:50] know, my father built a very big business, you know, several, several thousand acres of farmland, farm ground throughout California. But if you ask him, there was no strategic plan, there [00:01:00] was no spreadsheet. There was, there was nothing complicated. He said if you ask him how he did it, he said, you know, we worked hard. We saved money. We had a little bit of money. [00:01:10] We bought something. And then when we bought an orchard, and it made a little bit of money. We bought another orchard. You know, it was just very organic growth. You know, they [00:01:20] didn't lay awake at night thinking, okay, well, I'm going to go and, you know, take over the world. You know, they just wanted to work hard. They were having a good time and things just, you [00:01:30] know, worked out.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:01:40] So [00:01:40] this is exciting, Gary, that I'm here in your office, and I see a beautiful mural here with your logo, Empire Nut Company. You've [00:01:50] been members of United Ag for a few years, but just recently we actually got to connect. And when we connected over dinner, I said, I have to come down here and meet with [00:02:00] you in person because there was so much, so many things that you and the conversation, we were aligned in the way of thinking. And it was really interesting. So I wanted to tease out some [00:02:10] of the things that we talked during dinner and see where the conversation takes us.
Gary Thiara: [00:02:13] Good, good. Well, I hope I don't let you down. Good.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:02:16] So to introduce you, do you want to introduce yourself or you want me to introduce [00:02:20] you?
Gary Thiara: [00:02:20] So, yeah. Guess where we're at. So, I'm Gary Thiara. I'm the general manager and partner in Empire Nut Company, which [00:02:30] is a walnut processing facility. So we process and pack walnuts both in shell and kernels, and we ship [00:02:40] them worldwide. We, when I say we, ship them worldwide, we ship into the Middle East, we ship to Europe, to India and parts [00:02:50] of Asia. So, yeah, anywhere they eat walnuts, we, you'll find, won't necessarily find our products on shelf because we don't we don't take them all to retail level, but we do [00:03:00] supply to all those markets.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:03:02] So any walnut that somebody is eating could be from here, right?
Gary Thiara: [00:03:05] It very well could be, yes.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:03:07] Yeah. What about the US market? Is that as big as [00:03:10] the other markets?
Gary Thiara: [00:03:11] The US market is big market, and we have, we also do sell domestically, our, as a company, our footprint on a percentage basis is not that [00:03:20] big domestically. We do kind of have an initiative in-house to try to grow our domestic footprint, but we just started out initially doing more internationally. A lot of my [00:03:30] work previously took me to international markets and so I knew customers and knew people internationally. And so it was just a natural fit in that regard. And the walnut industry, the [00:03:40] US walnut market is probably about, it'll change from time to time, but I would say almost close to 70% is international shipments [00:03:50] and maybe 40 to 30% is domestic.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:03:53] So how does, for somebody new to the California landscape of where what's grown, how does that fit in where [00:04:00] walnuts grow and why?
Gary Thiara: [00:04:02] I think walnuts like, I would say, a mild climate, and you need a fair amount of water to grow good quality walnuts. So [00:04:10] walnuts are grown throughout the state. But I would say predominantly in the northern part of the state, north of Sacramento, the [00:04:20] Delta region, Stockton, Linden, those areas grow walnuts, good quality walnuts. And then north of Sacramento here in Colusa, Yuba City, Red Bluff, north part of the state, [00:04:30] has the larger growing region, if you will, the San Joaquin Valley, just by virtue of the land mass and how big it is, is also a big producer [00:04:40] of walnuts. But as you drive around the valleys, you're going to drive around north of Sacramento and you're not going to drive more than ten minutes and you're going to run into a walnut orchard, whereas [00:04:50] you can be south of Fresno and you can drive for an hour and not see a walnut orchard. And so we like to think of it as more of a Northern California crop.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:04:58] This whole perception of water [00:05:00] and what gets used in a negative kind of perception. What are your thoughts around that?
Gary Thiara: [00:05:04] So I guess this is my pitch with respect to water. First of all, agriculture [00:05:10] does seem to get a bad rap for, you know, the consumption of water. But the truth is, California, I mean, the last time we had any major water projects [00:05:20] in California, we only had 17, 18 million people living in the state of California. Now we have 40 million people. So the competition for what water we have is increased in [00:05:30] both urban areas and rural areas. California agriculture in general, I would say, is a very good steward of their water. Like we don't waste water. We understand how precious [00:05:40] it is. We use exactly what we need, not more than what we need. There's a lot of farmers who are very creative in terms of going to drip micro-irrigation so [00:05:50] you can get more with less. Even prior to that, if you went and looked at row crops or if you looked at orchards that used to be flood irrigated, [00:06:00] they make heavy investments in what we would call return systems to make sure that once the water gets to the end, we bring it back and reuse it again. So, you know, [00:06:10] farmers are very, very aware of what a precious commodity water is and do their very best to not waste it. But California [00:06:20] is the breadbasket for the world and we grow a lot of commodities and we need, agriculture needs, the water just as much as the urban areas.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:06:27] You know, when you talk about that from a sustainability [00:06:30] of kind of the soil and the usage of water, when you think of big trees, right, you're planting something so you're not planting something today that in six [00:06:40] months from today will give you what you need from it and you're done, right? You're building something kind of for generations and generations. Is that true with walnuts, too? Because when you think [00:06:50] of other big trees and that's what you're thinking, but if you are not stewards of the land and water resources, then you're not creating a sustainable business. [00:07:00] Right. Wouldn't you think?
Gary Thiara: [00:07:01] No, that's true. You develop if you see a bare piece of ground and you decide you're going to put an orchard on it or a walnut orchard, you're going to develop it. It's going to you know, you're going [00:07:10] to plant the tree, you're going to raise it, grow it, put inputs, fertilizers, water, other nutrients. And it's going to be, you know, five years before [00:07:20] you take a crop. And it's probably going to be 7 or 8 years before you take an economically viable crop. So it's a long term investment. And then [00:07:30] that orchard hopefully is going to be there for the next, you know, 25, 30, 35 years, depending on what type of orchard you planted, what type of soils. So, yes, it's a very [00:07:40] long term investment.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:07:41] Right. Right. I think sometimes people fail too because you're thinking manufacturing like you think in terms of bringing a product to the market, this [00:07:50] bringing a product to market, especially like the Covid time I really studied it. It's like really hard decisions are made today for five years down the road, right? So it's a long game.
Gary Thiara: [00:07:59] It's a long game. [00:08:00] And you're working off of projections that, you know, I mean, you know, you look at the last farmers a lot of times, you know, okay, well this the trend line is good here. It seems [00:08:10] like people want this stuff. You know, we're always I think all of agriculture, you're growing a healthy, wholesome product. But demand shifts, you know, and demand shifts. And that's how [00:08:20] you get into oversupply or undersupply situations. But these investments, it's not like typically when you see publicly traded companies in their stock is reacting to how their [00:08:30] quarter was. You know we can't measure agriculture quarter by quarter. It's a longer range.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:08:35] That's true. I know you have a background in finance right I mean and [00:08:40] that was your first job right out of college.
Gary Thiara: [00:08:44] Yeah out of college my first job was in banking actually was with a farm credit system but a [00:08:50] banking system. And then I would say probably for the next 7 or 8 years, I was in one form of banking or another, mostly commercial banking, agriculture, finance related [00:09:00] banking before I came back to the family business, which was farming. My father and uncles had started this business back in 1960, as early as 1960, and [00:09:10] it was a diversified agriculture. It was peaches and prunes, almonds and walnuts. So after about 7 or 8 years of banking, I [00:09:20] came back to the family business primarily to work on the finance side. And, you know, and as rules and regulations in California were increasing [00:09:30] and, you know, it was just becoming, you know, farmers couldn't just be farmers. They had to also manage the business side of things. So I really came back with that in mind [00:09:40] and the finance perspective in mind. And then as you would have it, in a small family business, you end up doing everything and then the business grew. And as the business grows, [00:09:50] there are more silos. And now I find myself spending 80, 85% of my time in the office and, you know, 15% of the time in the field. And, you know, thank goodness [00:10:00] my brother and other people are in the field and collectively, we collectively we can get it done.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:10:05] So there are you and your brother and the two other brothers, Right. Sam [00:10:10] and his brother started this business. Right. So what can you tell us a little bit about the birth of Empire Nut?
Gary Thiara: [00:10:15] Yeah. So my brother and I manage and operate [00:10:20] our family's farming business, which as I mentioned, is peaches and prunes, almonds and walnuts. And we farm throughout California down south [00:10:30] to near the Bakersfield area and then all the way up north, closer towards Chico. The walnut portion of our business, so [00:10:40] our almonds and our peaches and our prunes that we're strictly farmers, we grow, that we sell our products to other processors, or we are [00:10:50] part of co-ops that then take that product to market. The walnut side of the business, we are more vertically integrated, where as I mentioned with Empire Nut, [00:11:00] we pack, process and ship. So Empire Nut, about 12, 13 years ago we had the idea of, Hey, we're growing walnuts, why don't [00:11:10] we vertically integrate and pack and process. And as we were having that conversation, we have Sam and Dominic Nevis who are also friends of ours. We were really sitting around at lunch one day talking [00:11:20] about, Hey, we're thinking about doing this. And they said, Yeah, we're thinking about the same thing. And then one thing led to another and we said, Well, you know, why don't we do it together? You know, farmers are typically cooperative people. [00:11:30]
Gary Thiara: [00:11:30] And we said, Hey, why don't we go out this thing together? And then we had a lot of discussions as to, hey, so what does that look like? Then comes the business structure. Okay. Who's going to do what. Who's responsible [00:11:40] for what? And we went through that process and ultimately we decided that it did make sense for us to do something together. We could scale the business faster in a partnership. [00:11:50] So that's what we did, you know, and fast forward, you know, like I said, 12 or 13 years later, I tend to spend a lot of my time on the Empire Nut side. [00:12:00] My partner Sam Nevis, is involved quite a bit, helping me with that. And then his brother Dominic, my brother Shinji, are also the peripheral. They've got their hands full on the farming [00:12:10] side, but they still pop in here once in a while and let us know what they think and then we react to it.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:12:18] So how is it, this is just my curiosity, [00:12:20] how is it working with your brother?
Gary Thiara: [00:12:23] It's good. I'm blessed. My brother, he's younger. I'm older. That means that I get.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:12:28] You get to be the boss. [00:12:30]
Gary Thiara: [00:12:30] I get to be a little bit bossy. But no, we have a very good partnership. Always have. And it's, we joke that, you know, he's my father's favorite and I'm my mother's [00:12:40] favorite. So when we do have problems, we just go to our parents and then we let them figure it out for us. But no, it's a good partnership. It works well and he's very, [00:12:50] very good at a lot of things that I'm not good at and I'd like to think vice versa. And so collectively it works very well.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:12:56] Great partnership. So your roots, going back to the conversation around [00:13:00] roots. I know you're raised here, grown up here, but your family roots go back to India, right? So it was your dad that grew up in India.
Gary Thiara: [00:13:09] Yes, my dad [00:13:10] grew up in India. My family at one point there was a great grandfather in, I want to say 1906 time period that was here. My history on that [00:13:20] is a little bit foggy, but my grandfather immigrated in 1949 to the US and he worked here as an ag laborer. He worked in the [00:13:30] the Delta region, cutting asparagus and whatever else they did back then. And he went back and forth to India several times. The idea was, you [00:13:40] know, you come to America, work hard, make money, go back home, you know, live a comfortable life. Then he did that. And then my father, when he was 20 years old, [00:13:50] came to the US in 1960. My grandfather actually had called him over. The concept was supposed to be the same, you know, work hard, make money, go [00:14:00] back home. And my father decided, I kind of like it here. I don't think I'm going to go back home. This is home. And so he and his brother were also agricultural [00:14:10] workers. And in 1964, they bought their, they saved up enough money, and they bought their first 20 acres and started farming and [00:14:20] decided they were going to stay. And so my father went back to India, I believe, in 1966, 65, 66, for a period of time. He married [00:14:30] my mother. And so I was born in India and came to the US with my mother in 1969. And I grew up here. I've been here ever since. So yeah, [00:14:40] our family originally from India, a lot of roots there, but I would say most of our family is.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:14:46] Now in the US.
Gary Thiara: [00:14:47] Is well settled in the US.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:14:49] Even in India. [00:14:50] For people who don't know India, right? So you come from part of India where farming was a big part, right? The Punjab part of India. So do you think that kind of [00:15:00] so they wanted to go back, but did they want to, do you think the recreation of Punjab happens here in California?
Gary Thiara: [00:15:07] Yeah, I would say that. I always wonder, [00:15:10] like, why my grandfather wanted to go back and you know, why my father decided not to. I suspect my grandfather was probably a little bit older and had, you know, more more connections [00:15:20] and ties to India, which is why he went back and forth so many times. When my father came here, he was a young man. He was 20 years old. And there were many others like him [00:15:30] doing the same thing. And they were. And so they kind of built their community, if you will, in the areas where they were at. And there was enough of them to where they felt comfortable with one another. [00:15:40] It was a very agricultural area where they were at. It was very similar to where they came from. And they just decided, hey, this is a great place to be and we can make a living here and then we [00:15:50] can support a family here. And then just what's interesting, you know, my father built a very big business, you know, several, several thousand acres of farmland, farm ground throughout California. [00:16:00] But if you ask him, there was no strategic plan, there was no spreadsheet. There was no there was nothing complicated. He said if you ask him how he did [00:16:10] it, he said, you know, we worked hard. We saved money. We had a little bit of money. We bought something. And then when we bought an orchard and it made a little bit of money, we bought another orchard. [00:16:20] And it was just very organic growth. You know, they didn't lay awake at night thinking, okay, well, I'm going to go and, you know take over the world. You know, they just wanted [00:16:30] to work hard. They were having a good time and things just, you know, worked out.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:16:34] And didn't you tell me the last time when we were talking you said even to help as a community, somebody said, I need [00:16:40] this much money for something. And then they just pulled and that's how they grew each other.
Gary Thiara: [00:16:45] Yeah, that's how they grew. I mean you know, without naming names, there are so many farming families [00:16:50] from Fresno to Yuba City that it's a very common theme. They all know each other. And I've heard stories from my father. Yeah, when so-and-so was buying their [00:17:00] first 20 acres, you know, we helped them. We, meaning he and his other friends, helped them. And then when we bought our 20 acres, those same people, I mean, everybody helped [00:17:10] each other to kind of get started. And it was always very much a community feel, which is really kind of a neat story. It wasn't this huge competitive, oh my God, I've got to keep all [00:17:20] my information to myself so I can, you know, have some inside angle. It was much more cooperative and much more, you know, people were open about asking for help and people were very giving [00:17:30] in helping. And so as a community, everybody did well.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:17:37] That’s awesome, right? I mean, that's a way to build community. Sometimes [00:17:40] today maybe we get caught up in like keeping to us because we don't want the others to grow.
Gary Thiara: [00:17:46] Yeah and I will tell you, you know, you're absolutely right. There's always a competitive you know, [00:17:50] there's proprietary information. Right. Or stuff that you need to to keep to yourself. But I would say in agriculture is very unique in that [00:18:00] as far as other industries that I've been, you know, had the pleasure to observe, agriculture is very open. You know, farmers will talk to one another, they will share ideas, [00:18:10] you know, and part of it could be that, you know, you can drive by my orchards and, you know, I don't have walls up. They're not behind fences. You can, you know, if you know what you're looking at as you're driving [00:18:20] down the road, you can look, if I'm out there spraying or if I'm out there irrigating, you can tell I'm doing it. So it's not a big secret, number one. Right. But I would say farmers [00:18:30] and I like to think of myself as a farmer. I'd say farmers are very open with one another in sharing their ideas and seeing that the community helps. It's [00:18:40] a kind of a common theme.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:18:41] Actually that's very true because I was I talked to Rodney Braga from Braga Family Farms and he was saying something similar because he said he actually does tours [00:18:50] because when they find something that can help kind of from a sustainability standpoint, they kind of show it to the other people, right? So then you can take that and [00:19:00] use it in your own farms, right? So that seems that's a little bit unique to agriculture as opposed to other industries.
Gary Thiara: [00:19:06] It is very unique. And you know, I sit on a bank board [00:19:10] and I sit on a board of a co-op and it was it was a learning experience for me. When you're sitting in a room and, you know, confidentiality notices [00:19:20] or, you know, signing non-disclosure agreements, I was like, what is this? I'm like, oh, this is how we do business. And I'm like, that's not how we do business on the farm. You know, if we if we have a good idea, we tell everybody [00:19:30] and they're like, No, no, no. We don't do that here.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:19:31] Nothing is done with a handshake here, right?
Gary Thiara: [00:19:35] It was a learning experience. And so but that's, you know, the nature of farmers. [00:19:40] They're open and generous people.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:19:41] I think the other thing I feel farmers are very modest. And one of the things was this was actually fun. Maybe it's not interesting [00:19:50] or funny, but I was thinking through something yesterday and I heard this person say don't ever interview people who are modest because then they don't have interesting [00:20:00] stories to tell. And all my interviews have been with modest people because agriculture is very modest it's like when you have success, it's somebody else's, [00:20:10] right? I mean, it's a problem ours to take. Everybody says that. And you will never know somebody's super successful in agriculture because they're [00:20:20] so down to earth and like very comfortable. So it's, it's very unique. But I found the most interesting stories in this modest industry.
Gary Thiara: [00:20:29] Yeah, you're probably [00:20:30] right. But, you know, I would say that, you know, you cannot be in this business if you're not humble and modest because, you know, you can be growing the best crop [00:20:40] and you can be driving around and saying, hey, look at me, what a fantastic farmer I am. Look at my trees. They look like they're going to produce the biggest yield ever. And you can go home and [00:20:50] and feel fantastic about yourself. And that night, Mother Nature can decide to drop, you know, five inches of rain on your head. And you wake up the next morning and you know your yields [00:21:00] are cut in half. Yeah. So to ever drive around your orchards or your business thinking I did this or this is all because of me, I think you should be [00:21:10] very careful about that. I think farmers are typically like, hey, we're working outdoors. You know, Mother Nature is our partner every step of the way. And it would be very foolish [00:21:20] for a farmer to have any level of arrogance because without Mother Nature --
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:21:25] But isn't that true, Gary, that lesson that you just said, isn't that true even outside [00:21:30] of agriculture? Because we all get very arrogant, we all get very egotistical because we get to a certain position. And we think it's all because of me, this [00:21:40] and I'm the CEO of UnitedAg this and this. I mean, we all get so egoistical that the next day anything could happen, right? I mean, we all need to learn to be humble. [00:21:50] Maybe that's what we need to learn from everybody in agriculture.
Gary Thiara: [00:21:53] Yeah, No, I think you're absolutely right. I don't know if it's learned or if it's inherent, but I've been blessed to [00:22:00] be around people who have always, you know, just, you know, when I tell you my story about my father and they say, look, there was no business plan. We just worked hard. And when we had a little bit of extra money, we tried to do the next [00:22:10] thing. And when you realize that everything that you do, there's a lot of good fortune involved, right? I mean, yeah, I agree [00:22:20] with you. I think that if we take ourselves too seriously or if we try to give ourselves a bit too much credit, I always worry that there's just, you know, there's something out there that's going to remind me that, no, it [00:22:30] wasn't all you.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:22:31] Don't be full of yourself. Yeah.
Speaker3: [00:22:33] Exactly. Right. Right.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:22:34] Be humble. I think that's a that's a life lesson. That's a life lesson. And the other thing, when you're telling me [00:22:40] your dad's story earlier, what I was thinking yesterday, somebody was telling me they'd seen this Picasso one man show. And in that, Picasso says, why would I create something [00:22:50] if I know what the end is, what the results are going to be, or I know the answer? So his whole thing approach to art was, I want to create something when I don't [00:23:00] know what the ending is or I'm just going to go on the journey, right? So your dad was like that. He didn't start off saying, I'm going to create this big walnut thing or whatever his he [00:23:10] didn't start off that day. He said, I'm going to get up in the morning, do my stuff, and if I have more money, I'll go on to the next step. Right? And that's the way even to lead our lives. And then [00:23:20] success happens. Look at where you are today.
Gary Thiara: [00:23:22] Exactly. No, absolutely. And so it's funny. I have my children. I have one son at university and I have two daughters in high school. And, you know, and [00:23:30] you can see the stress on kids sometimes. I mean, they want the next thing you know, whatever it is they're doing. And I find myself telling them, hey, just relax. It'll be okay. Right? This test [00:23:40] is not this is not.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:23:42] The end of life.
Gary Thiara: [00:23:43] It's not everything. Yeah, exactly. It'll be fine. Just, you know, do your best and then move on with that. Right. And so.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:23:49] That's a great lesson [00:23:50] to learn. So do you think being your dad or even for you, right, having that connection to India, did that have any impact [00:24:00] in your life?
Gary Thiara: [00:24:01] Yeah, I think it's funny you think about that from time to time and you know the impacts that you have on your life. I would say they change all the time, right? And so having that [00:24:10] history, what I have always been more maybe open to the idea or think about is like, you know, we have to say this properly. I guess, [00:24:20] you know, the fact that we do so much international business and we travel and we see people all over the world, if you watch the nightly news, you know, I think you would be led to believe that [00:24:30] there's so much polarization on the planet and these people are pulling in this way and this country is pulling in that direction. But when you meet the actual people of those countries [00:24:40] and you're in the marketplace and you're meeting people from the Middle East, you're meeting people from Asia, you're meeting people from different parts of Europe, what you realize is that people are [00:24:50] people and they all want the same basic things. They want to live a comfortable life. They want to provide for their families and they want, you know, some sense of security [00:25:00] and security in the sense that, you know, life is going to be okay. Right. And to me, that's something that's really impactful when I meet people, I understand. And [00:25:10] I and then having come from India and I grew up so I mean, when I say come from India, I was born there, that's really about all I can say, right? But just knowing that and then being open to the idea of, hey, I'm from a different [00:25:20] place, made you more aware of trying to learn about other places. Right. And my biggest takeaway and I think what I've learned by having been born [00:25:30] somewhere else and having to understand what that meant is and then in business, traveling all over the world, you know, what I've learned is that people [00:25:40] are people. They're all the same. And so I'm a bit cynical about watching the nightly news all the time.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:25:46] There's a political narrative out there and that doesn't fit the bill, [00:25:50] right? But when you actually get to know people and that's so true even with anything, even with agriculture and what's out there.
Gary Thiara: [00:25:56] Right it’s true with everything. And it's something that I say sometimes in, [00:26:00] you know, in this case or others, it's like, we can all agree, let's use, you know, it's football season it’s starting up to say so you know, we can all agree that we like football, right? And you like football. I like [00:26:10] football. So football is great. But as soon as you say that I'm a San Francisco forty niners fan or I'm a Los Angeles Rams fan, well [00:26:20] then it becomes necessary for one of us to win and one of us to lose. Right? And so that's the delicate balance. I mean, you have to have a team. You have to play for your team. [00:26:30] But, you know, how do you at the end of the game, whatever the game is, remember that, hey, we all still like football, right? And so.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:26:37] It's how you define your identity, I think, [00:26:40] Right. Do you love football? Is that your identity or are you a forty niners fan, is that your identity right? And then you get caught up in that narrative. I think that's why the polarization [00:26:50] is happening. We all are caught up with, this is who I am, right? And this fits my narrative. And I want to, then I'm going to not like anything else other than that. Right. [00:27:00] And that's across the board. I think that's happening. And yeah, news has to be news worthy.
Gary Thiara: [00:27:05] Right, right, right, right. Yeah.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:27:08] We’re talking about, I was [00:27:10] talking to someone, even from agricultural standpoint, when we talk about the water and other labor and the way people are treated in agriculture, when you actually go in and [00:27:20] see very differently right. But it makes great news saying that ag doesn't treat labor correctly.
Gary Thiara: [00:27:27] Right. And I would say that's you know, my [00:27:30] experience in agriculture is that that's so far from the truth. Right? I mean, you know, speaking specifically about, you know, UnitedAg and what, you know, what has been really good for us is when [00:27:40] my, you know, years ago when my father and uncles were running our business, you know, we didn't have health care options that we were providing for our labor force and our employees. [00:27:50] And it wasn't because we didn't care about our people and we didn't want to. It was just like, as you're growing a business, you know, whether you're challenged with margins or whatever it is, you know, it's [00:28:00] kind of a growth process. And, you know, my brother and I, you know, we got to a point where we're like, hey, you know, we we are blessed. And it has been a good run, but it's been because of all of the [00:28:10] people around us and they have helped us get here. What more can we do now to make sure that they can participate in this good fortune that they've all participated [00:28:20] in building? And so to be able to offer health care options to our employees, to be able to look at other things, whether it's 401Ks that's all [00:28:30] you know, you can choose to look at it as a cost center or you can look at it as a, you know, this is what we do and, and don't mean to suggest cost centers [00:28:40] aren't important, but we are in a business of making a profit and we have to look at those things. Right? But I for me, it's very satisfying to be able to consider myself and say, you know what, we're a good [00:28:50] employer and to be a good employer is we're providing a safe place to work, providing a good place to work. We're providing, you know, competitive benefits which [00:29:00] include health care and other things, and we're providing the opportunity for growth. You know, all of those things make me feel good about what I do as a person, [00:29:10] as an employer. They cause me many agonizing nights when I'm putting together a budget to see, you know, how am I going to deliver on the bottom line? But that's that delicate balance [00:29:20] that leaders or we as leaders, we have to figure that out. Right?
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:29:23] Right. And it is. And the sense of, I have a strong sense of being fair to people when you're working hard, [00:29:30] right. You compensate them at a fair, whatever is that definition of fair. And sometimes it's not about who's watching or who's that person knows that this person knows, [00:29:40] but that keeps you up at night. And are you being fair to people and are you treating them correctly? But you're right. But then you struggle with the financial implications of your decision every [00:29:50] day, right? My every day is making a decision saying, okay, this is the most human thing to do, but this is not from a compliance standpoint [00:30:00] and all the other things that we have to consider. And there's always a conflict. So you're looking for a middle ground of how do you make it work? And that's what I go through every day, [00:30:10] right? I go through every day. Yeah. Yeah. That's a hard--
Gary Thiara: [00:30:13] It is hard. And, you know, it doesn't get easier. It gets harder and harder every year. But I think I was telling you before the interview [00:30:20] started is like, you know, we're only as good as our people, right? And so I have to make the assumption that I have good people doing what they're doing. And then [00:30:30] my job becomes really focused on, as an organization, am I doing right by my people? And that, yeah, that consumes a big [00:30:40] chunk of my time.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:30:40] Yeah, that is, that's awesome. So one of the exercises I do with the Women Ag leaders, my, the group that I run is to find your leaders in your [00:30:50] life. And people usually have, first they start off with like the names that you see outside, but then it ends up being mom and dad or brother or whatever. It looks like yours is your [00:31:00] dad.
Gary Thiara: [00:31:01] Yeah, I would say yes. I mean my non-business side, somebody I really look back to somebody because my grandfather was not a businessman. He was [00:31:10] he was an ag laborer, for lack of a better word, hardworking, a very well-read, you know, love to read and recite poetry. And so a lot of things I learned that [00:31:20] don't have anything to do with maybe running a business directly, but they make you a better leader, I would say came from my grandfather [00:31:30] in the form of stories and, you know, things that I remember. But my father is definitely my role model and he inspires me. He's [00:31:40] probably the only person that I'm afraid to disappoint. So, yeah, he's definitely been a big, big part of my life. And then I've been really fortunate [00:31:50] and blessed to make some good friends along the way as I got older. I call them friends, but they were people that I met in my roles [00:32:00] in business. They were just good people and they were smart people, and whether they realize it or not, they took the time and energy to teach me [00:32:10] and not, you know, it wasn't on their, you know, on their calendar. Okay. Today Gary's coming in and we're going to teach him. It just happened organically. So I've had a couple, you know, 2 or [00:32:20] 3 people that I would characterize as very, very important and influential in my life that make me, I think, a better business person. But yeah, my dad's my hero. [00:32:30]
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:32:31] Nice. That's a very nice story. That's cool. But your grandfather, was that? So he was back and forth from India and coming here. Right? So the stories [00:32:40] he talked to you in Punjabi or?
Gary Thiara: [00:32:41] Yes. Yeah. My grandfather could speak English very well, actually. A strong accent, but he could speak good English. But I would say most of my Punjabi that I learned I either learned from my [00:32:50] grandfather or other people who worked for my father, who happened to be from Punjab. So he did go back and forth. But, you know, when he stayed, he stayed for, you know, chunk. [00:33:00]
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:33:00] Of time, a chunk.
Gary Thiara: [00:33:00] Of time. And ultimately when he passed, he was living in the US. So at one point he had transitioned and was in the US, but at a much you know, that was when he was [00:33:10] just my grandfather. And he wasn't working. He wasn't doing anything.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:33:14] Are those your favorite memories?
Gary Thiara: [00:33:16] Yeah. And I say my grandfather. But, you know, it was always my grandfather and my [00:33:20] grandmother. They were kind of a pair, but it was just for whatever reason, she was just, my grandmother was like any grandmother. She was just happy to see you. You know, she was just happy to see you. My grandfather still felt like he had something to teach you. So it was, it was different.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:33:36] To the stories. He taught you a lot of things.
Gary Thiara: [00:33:38] That's right. That's right.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:33:39] You [00:33:40] know, listening to you and kind of the fact that you have your roots in India and what you and your parents and your grandparents have created [00:33:50] in here, it really inspires me to be from the same ethnicity and see what success looks like. And [00:34:00] I feel I'm feeling super proud right now. This, listening to you, because it just sends that sense of pride comes in and my roots are in the US [00:34:10] and I'm a Californian and an American. But the ethnicity wise, the connection and the little bit of India always stays with you. And it just [00:34:20] makes me super proud to be sitting here.
Gary Thiara: [00:34:22] Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that. No, my brother makes fun of me and says, well, you know, you can't be president, I can. Because he was born here.That's, that's my one disappointment.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:34:34] I guess you can’t be president one day. That's too bad. [00:34:37] I thought you were going to. We need people like you to run. [00:34:40]
Gary Thiara: [00:34:41] There’s probably other reasons why I can't be president, but the fact that I wasn't born here is the biggest.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:34:46] That's funny. That's funny. Anything else you think?
Gary Thiara: [00:34:49] You know [00:34:50] what I would say is that our experience with UnitedAg and with you, you know, this is the first time, I think I told you, is probably the first time I've done an interview [00:35:00] in forever, you know, that I can think of and why I was willing, not only willing, interested to do it, is you guys have been a great partner. I mean, [00:35:10] you know, you not only it's not just the service that you provide, but it's the help along the way and the hand-holding because, you know, until UnitedAg came along, we were not offering those [00:35:20] things to our employees that I indicated we wanted to, largely because, you know, nobody really helped us get involved this way. We, you know, we put it out before, you know, and inquiries, bids, [00:35:30] however you want to characterize it. And we got back worksheets and numbers and we looked at the numbers and we looked at the worksheets. And for whatever reason, it was just it was overwhelming. [00:35:40] And so we didn't do it. And then along came UnitedAg and here we are. So, you know, that's a combination of maybe us being ready to [00:35:50] take the step, but it's also a result of the service and the hand-holding that you all provided that we greatly appreciate.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:35:59] Thank [00:36:00] you. Thank you for saying that, because one of the things I the way we say educate about agriculture. My thing is how do we take health [00:36:10] insurance aspect of it that has a negative connotation attached to it and how do we make this around empathy and bringing back empathy in health care? Right? It is [00:36:20] and it has to be from different perspectives. It's like if you and I were diagnosed with something, how does that happen? What happens then and then? But how do you create a sustainable [00:36:30] health plan that's financially sustainable and does right by our employees because we want to do that, too. And then how do you as an employer help employers? [00:36:40] Because ag is a low margin business. It's really, really hard and you cannot sustain double digit renewals and stuff. We all understand that. How do you eventually [00:36:50] make it sustainable? So your line item on the income statement is a good line item and not just eating away at your margins, right? So that's what [00:37:00] kind of goes on in my head and that's what we're trying to solve through UnitedAg and hopefully we'll get there. We're not there yet. We'll get there one of these days, but that's kind of the plan there. [00:37:10] Yeah, but we need partners like you. I'm excited. We met and got to know each other and that's my passion. So thank you. And thank you for taking the time to do this.
Gary Thiara: [00:37:19] Absolutely. [00:37:20] And thank you for thank you for allowing me to do it. I appreciate it.
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:37:23] Thank you..